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360plex #51 -- That's One Hell of a Burger
360plex #51 -- That's One Hell of a Burger
30 May 2008

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What we are playing:
hoZt -- GTA IV, Ballers, Boom Blox (wii)
Hero-GTA IV, Dragon Ball Z,
Tyrannus Miles - Ironman Demo, GTA
FirenFlames -- GTA IV, Assault Heroes 2, Penny Arcade Episode 1
TheDaddy--GTA IV, Penny Arcade Episode 1, Pattapon (psp), Bourne Demo

XBLA
Buko SudkoPenny Arcade

News


Niko wants more money


First glimpse of the Rock Band Stage Kit

Games to be Removed from Live

Photos
FirenFlames -- Finnally she send us a picture
Hero -- Now that is one hell of a burger


360plex Score: 1530
Join Date: Feb 2008
Seattle
Member #: 483
Total Posts: 149
Posted: 11 years ago
Holy crap FirenFlames, now i heard that a mic can add 10lbs to your voice but you must be using a Bullhorn to do the show.Im glad to here you bought a Wii fit since according to your phot it looks like there isn't much that could fit you.And Hero, I am one of those ppl who really thought that picture with the burger was you.i'm glad you corrected us, I was about to head to McDonalds and donate my change to your cause.Loved the show guys!

360plex Score: 7425
Join Date: Dec 2007
Indiana
Member #: 407
Total Posts: 638
Posted: 11 years ago
Good Show, wish i could have made it Live

Thanks as always for making my work day a little more off topic.

360plex Score: 5875
Join Date: May 2007
Upstate NY
Member #: 3
Total Posts: 488
Posted: 11 years ago
Glad you all enjoyed the show and the pic that I guess you all say best repersents me we will hopefully do some more live shows at better times for you all take it easy Hero out

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You're local neighborhood friendly Hero

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
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Posted: 11 years ago
Not sure if your aware Hero but that pic displays on your i-Pod lol nice one Hozt

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360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 4330
Join Date: Jun 2007
North Carolina
Member #: 56
Total Posts: 358
Posted: 11 years ago
It's Sudoku (sue-dough-coo) and it's fun, I own sudoku for the DS and have played Buku but haven't bought it yet, I will though and yes I know, 'maybe if I had joined the live show I would've been able to defend it' yeah, shut the hell up. And I'm one of those people that try to 100% GTA, TRY being the key word seeing as I always ALWAYS get a glitch right at the end, 97% in Vice City and 95% in San Andreas and now, I am having a problem with Dwayne being a friend and it's pissing me off, if I get glitched again I swear I'm going to freak out.

Btw, the 'Hero pic' freaked Gia out and made her start crying so she didn't get to finish the podcast... good going guys, good going...

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My husband is an Italian Hero... the person not the sandwich.

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
I want to jump in about the guy who did the voice of Niko Bellic, and his not being happy with the union, his not getting royalties from sales, etc. Unlike what the Daddy said about contract negotiations, I think you may forget that the people who did the voice acting were all nobodies before this, and therefore have no negotiating ability. If they tried to negotiate better terms in their contract, Rockstar could just say, "Well then, if you don't like it, we don't need you," and they could find another voice actor who's talented, but unknown. That's why the union needs to get them royalties, because they don't have the power by themselves to get it. It's the same for regular actors in Hollywood. If you're an unknown, you don't have the power to negotiate, because unknown actors in Hollywood are a dime a dozen. The company doesn't need you as much as you need them.

If voice actors in CGI movies like Shrek or Pixar films can get royalties, then so should voice actors in video games. To me, they're one in the same. Their union should be trying to make that happen for them. I think they should be eligible for a small royalty, as it is their work in the game, just like it's the level designers, the musicians who do the score, et.al. If none of them are eligible for royalties, then something is really wrong with the video game pay structure.

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
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Posted: 11 years ago
But as I also said, unfortunately actors have a positive effect on punters going to see a film and therefore have an effect on profit, so they can cherry pick roles and demand a cut and even if the film is a turkey.

When you can say to me that your going to buy a game because some nobody is doing the voice acting I will accept your point.

As an example Batman & Robin (which we'll all agree was a turkey) still managed to have a total worldwide gross of $238,207,122, against a budget of $125 million.

Now your not telling me that's down to script and director.

As for current films that is now changing as Will Smith is one of the few actors still considered box office gold.

New up and coming actors are not getting the same deals anymore, so I doubt game voice overs will.

Article excerpt :

The modern notion of star power -- the idea, which took hold about 30 years ago, that stars matter above all else to a movie's success -- placed tremendous power in the hands of talent and their agencies, which caused salaries to go up, which in turn increased actors' leverage even further.

But there's a sense now -- evident in multiple boxoffice metrics and comments uttered privately by the dozens of agents, managers and producers interviewed for this report -- that the interplay among consumers, celebrities and entertainment dollars is changing. The new dynamics are a challenge the next generation of up-and-comers -- Shia LaBeouf, Seth Rogen, Emile Hirsch and Katherine Heigl often are cited -- could face.

"As audiences get younger, they don't care about movie stars in the same way," Sony Screen Gems president Clint Culpepper says. "The idea of seeing a beautiful movie star on the big screen just isn't the same to them."

Full article:

www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i9fd76a66aebe6d4c1aa6faf82d19eb74

But at the end of the day its just an opinion that encourages debate.

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360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
I don't disagree with 'star actors' causing people to watch crappy movies. But do you disagree with my point about no-name actors not having the power to negotiate better terms?

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
I do but then on the other hand, if the game developers, can just pick the next nobody if a certain voice actor doesn't fit the bill or tries to negotiate better terms, then they don't see them as an integral part of selling that game or making profit.

And if that's the case then they will never offer more money.

I'm not saying its right but just the way it is.

The other thing to consider is this, "Among game company executives, one real fear is that if they start paying royalties to a handful of actors, they will soon face similar demands from the legions of artists, designers, audio producers, musicians, programmers and other people who work for years to make a top-end game."

And ultimately that will push up the price of games, so tough luck 'Michael Who' I want to keep my games under £40 or $60 for you guys on the other side of the pond.

And at the end of the day, he's managed to get a lot of publicity and now may get some proper actors work (every cloud has a silver lining and all that).

---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
Are you really arguing for the mega-corporations? C'mon dude. Come back to the light side. smile

Sorry, but I just don't buy the 'slippery slope' argument. That's like saying, 'If Jim Carrey gets $20 million a picture, then everyone else will ask for more money.' All I'm saying is, I think that people whose work is immediately on display in a game or a movie should be eligible to receive some sort of royalties. My friend who's in the Toadies? The band he was in before that released an album, and for every one of their albums that gets sold at retail, they get a small percentage. It's not much, but it's something. And if the album sells really well, then it ads up, but it's the same percentage regardless, so it gives him (and the others who performed on the album) incentive to make a kick-ass product. This is all due to a standard deal that the RIAA (music union) negotiated long ago. I believe the same should be applicable for people who work directly on video games. That's all.

And the guy who did the voice of Niko Bellic? He's only getting the publicity because the video game union hasn't caught up to the music and film unions. So, maybe that's the silver lining, but it sounds like he'd rather have the parity and not the publicity.

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 3560
Join Date: Feb 2008
www.o35s.net - Wales U.K
Member #: 477
Total Posts: 247
Posted: 11 years ago
The guy is bitter about it all, we all make mistakes in life and he should use this as a lesson and as experience. $100,000 was ample enough payment for speaking a few lines. Hell who would not take that? Maybe future voice actor hopefuls might learn from this as well.

I think it needs to be put into contrast here, he should be grateful of the work, he was paid and now it's not enough, while he is complaining maybe he should spare a thought or 2 for other poorly paid workers, like US troops for example, or British NHS nurses....

It sort of makes the whole thing seem petty to me.

---------------------------------
www.o35s.net - Gaming and podcasting for the elderly.

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
He just wishes there was parity with other entertainment industries. I don't disagree. And like Hero said, his beef was not with Rockstar, but with the union, which is supposed to represent him, and didn't do as good of a job as they do for musicians or actors.

The guy did not only the voice for the lead character in the biggest game of the year, but he also did the motion capture. Essentially, he's the star of the game. The $100,000 he made (or whatever the amount was) isn't the point. If he were a film actor, and was starring in a major movie instead of a video game, royalties based off of retail sales are practically standard. The precedent has already been set. Even though he's a 'no-name', he could easily have royalties included in his contract. This is not an option for video game actors. Video games and movies are becoming more and more alike in people's minds, so the pay scale should be comparable.

And no, I'm not saying he should've made $20 million for what he did! But if he isn't eligible for royalties, then who should be?

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 1530
Join Date: Feb 2008
Seattle
Member #: 483
Total Posts: 149
Posted: 11 years ago
Well now that he is somewhat famous for his voice, im sure he can negotiate a better deal next time.You gotta break into the biz somehow.

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
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Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
I suppose I can see your point, but here is a quote from what Hollick said :

The general guild-negotiated rate for actors is around $730 a day. Hollick said he had been paid about 50 percent more than the standard rate, or about $1,050 a day.

Now if you divide $100,000 by $1,050 that equals 95 days work which is 19, 5 day weeks, which works out to be $5,250 a week, now I'm no einstien but not only did he get 50% more than any other voice actor on the game, but a $100,000 for 19, 5 day weeks of reading lines and motion capture (even if it was spread over 15 months) sounds like pretty good wonga to me.

As Diablo says, what about all the poorly paid workers who get paid next to nothing, a corporal in the US army after 3 years service gets $1,900 a month which is what he got for 2 days work.

If you ask me he needs to get back to the real world and spend a couple of months getting shot at for real in Iraq before he starts complaining how much he got paid.

---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
Your last sentence could apply to a lot of people. Professional athletes, musicians, film stars, et.al. But again, it's about the parity with other similar industries. The video game industry isn't getting the respect it deserves in the entertainment business. He may have made more than most others that worked on the game, but that doesn't mean his union shouldn't be working to make royalties a possibility.

/sigh

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. In a way, I think we're saying the same thing, but from different perspectives.

One thing though: In your comments about the Army corporal, you're leaving out the fact that he doesn't have to pay room and board, and he probably also has his student loans paid for by the GI bill. And no offense to anyone who's ever served in the military, but if you can't handle getting shot at, or don't like the pay, don't enlist!

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 3560
Join Date: Feb 2008
www.o35s.net - Wales U.K
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Total Posts: 247
Posted: 11 years ago
Whatever or whoever his beef is with he was asked to do a job and was compensated quite well for it, all I can see from this story is somebody who realises that what they did was part of a several $100,000,000 product and is now bitter he missed out on it. I do not believe for one second he had no idea whatsoever what he was working on, he like many others have to sign disclosure agreements and discussing his work with outsiders would have most likely made his contract null and void. If he is trying to blame his union then all I can say is they must be a piss pot union in the first place, how can they not know the product or any details? Is this the first vioce over job they have ever come across? This is just another case of a poorly read contract. It is too late to start whining about payment. Like I have said before $100,000 is a very generous payment for doing basically nothing except move his jaw up and down whilst expelling air out of his mouth.

There are too many people these days earning vast amounts of cash and then complaining about still not getting enough, Maybe Niko should enlist and go and see what life is like in the real world. I still feel this is a petty complaint and people should take a reality check.

---------------------------------
www.o35s.net - Gaming and podcasting for the elderly.

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
We could keep going back and forth all night and ultimately I think we've all got valid points, just from different perspectives, were we are never going to agree.

So as they say 'Nuff Said'

Good debate though.

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360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
I don't know how much more I can say on this topic without sounding like a broken record, so I'm just going to quote the original NY Times article.

"Had this been a television program, a film, an album, a radio show or virtually any other sort of traditional recorded performance, Mr. Hollick and the other actors in the game would have made millions by now. As it stands, they get nothing beyond the standard Screen Actors Guild day rate they were originally paid.

That is because the contracts between the actors’ union and the entertainment industry make little or no provision for electronic media like video games and the Internet. It is a discrepancy that is expected to dominate negotiations between Hollywood and the guild this summer, with many predicting an actors’ strike to parallel the writers’ strike last year, which revolved around similar issues."

Hopefully the video game industry can make some progress, but you all need to understand how little respect it currently commands in the entertainment industry as a whole. This is the reason why the video game union has no pull, and they haven't been able to secure a royalty agreement for the artists yet. Instead, you're looking at his paycheck, and saying, 'I wish I had that much money to complain about!' I agree with you from that perspective, but the issue is a lot bigger than that. It's about an entire group of people getting f*cked over by corporations because a proper agreement isn't in place. How much money did executives at Take Two and Rockstar make, who did nothing to physically create the game?

'Maybe Niko should enlist and go and see what life is like in the real world.' Really? If everyone took that approach, we'd have no movies, music, or video games. Those who create the art should get their fair share. That's all I'm saying.

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago


---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
Sorry couldn't resist

---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
Member #: 4
Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
Okay, that was good. lol

We'll have to agree to disagree. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm just looking at it differently. I have a couple of friends who are musicians, and the royalties they collect on their record sales are important to them, no matter how small. I just wish the game industry had a similar deal in place. Hopefully they can renegotiate this summer, and make everyone happy.

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
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Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
Hear Hear.

Then I don't have to debate it any more.

---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 10935
Join Date: May 2007
Dallas, Texas
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Total Posts: 957
Posted: 11 years ago
Actually, let's debate some more: I think that burger-eating picture was really Hero.

Discuss.

smile

---------------------------------
'I wanna get my knees dirty.' -- Gunnz, Netcast 37

360plex Score: 6840
Join Date: May 2007
The other side of wigan
Member #: 6
Total Posts: 602
Posted: 11 years ago
Lol

Although he doesn't want anyone to know, it definately was !!!!!!!!

---------------------------------
360 leads to wife neglect !!!!

360plex Score: 3560
Join Date: Feb 2008
www.o35s.net - Wales U.K
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Posted: 11 years ago
How heavy was that burger? I am guessing at about 9.5 lbs.

---------------------------------
www.o35s.net - Gaming and podcasting for the elderly.

360plex Score: 1060
Join Date: Sep 2007
Kent, England
Member #: 285
Total Posts: 91
Posted: 11 years ago
I get 8 free Sudoku every day in the free london newspapers.
You have to be mad to pay for it when you caan get it for free! ;)

360plex Score: 2170
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On Top (In Bed)
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Total Posts: 98
Posted: 11 years ago
I think that picture of flames has scarred me smile

360plex Score: 1155
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boston, MA
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Posted: 11 years ago
Haha... Are you telling me that if I actually was 300 pounds you wouldn't want to date me noob? I'm shocked and offended!

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